Reflections on Co-operative Education

# Co-ops/ Internships at Laurier/Waterloo

Throughout my university experience, I found that the best learning opportunities stem from actually doing something, whether it's working on a side-project or interning at a company. Luckily, one of the main benefits of attending Waterloo and Laurier is the co-op program, where one can intern for 4-8 months at different organizations. Throughout my undergrad, I have had the opportunity to work in various fields, primarily in finance and tech.

Due to the fact that my home school is Laurier, I had to use the Laurier Navigator system instead of the Waterloo Works system. In general, Waterloo Works is superior to Navigator due to the sheer volume of tech jobs; the reputation of the Waterloo coop program is also much more reputable in tech hubs such as Silicon Valley and New York City. Laurier, however, has a much more tight-knit alumni community in Toronto, particularly in the fields of buy-side finance and management consulting, so I found that while not plenty, there were some higher quality business co-op opportunities in Toronto on the Laurier side.

Waterloo co-op programs typically have around 5 work terms (4 month periods) whereas Laurier co-op programs only have 4 work terms.

I would like to reflect on my experiences participating in the co-op program and also provide some insights.

# Reflections on Co-op

# Internship in China

Because I was in the double degree program based out of Laurier, while my Waterloo-based peers had their first co-op work term, I got the summer off. I went to visit my relatives in China, and while in China, I applied to some internships mainly to improve my Mandarin. The job application process was extremely different from that of North America; Chinese employers rely heavily on guanxi (personal relationships), so not knowing someone who works in a company can make getting a job there very difficult. Furthermore, many of the equity employment laws in Canada do not apply in China; for instance, I had to attach a headshot along with my résumé for my job applications.

I applied to different entry-level roles from both Western and Chinese companies and after several interviews with different companies, ranging from a boutique marketing firm to large multinationals, I ended up working a term as a Corporate Banking Intern at a Chinese commercial bank. My main roles were to attend different corporate client meetings with the sales team and to translate pitch decks for different financial products from Mandarin to English.

The work culture was very professional; I was expected to dress somewhere between business casual and business formal (usually I wore a short-sleeve dress shirt with dress pants and dress shoes). Some of the female sales managers even wore a uniform (a maroon suit). The workday was also much more rigid than I expected for an office job; people started work at a fixed time, ate lunch at a fixed time, and (at least for interns) finished work at a fixed time. I even had to punch in a timecard everyday at work.

Perhaps one of the most profound moments of my internship was when I was tasked with calling the employees of one of the bank's large corporate clients to inform them that bank cards had been issued to them by the company in order for the employees to get paid. I had a list of personal information for each employee and I noticed that many of the employees were around my age (around 18). I assumed that they, too, were working as interns for the summer. Later I found out that these kids around my age were in fact, manual labour factory workers who were working during the summer to support their families. This realization helped me appreciate how fortunate and privileged my situation is.

While I certainly improved my Mandarin on the job, I found the work itself to be very inconsequential and quite dull and unengaging. I also wasn’t the biggest fan of the rigid hierarchical structure of Chinese organizations and found the intern pay (~100RMB per day) to be insultingly low by Western standards. This was, however, my first foray into the professional world and I’m grateful to have had a unique experience which helped me gain new perspectives and insights.

# Co-op in Marketing

My next work experience came from Laurier’s Navigator system; being a part of the double degree program, I was automatically admitted into the co-op program but I was still required to attend many of the career workshops. I found most of the university-run workshops to be largely a waste of time and sometimes even harmful (for a long time I used a two-page résumé with very little work experience because the co-op office advised me to). I did, however, find the employer sessions pretty useful both for learning about different organizations and for networking.

Having no idea what I wanted to do, I submitted over 100 applications and got over 20 interviews for positions in diverse fields ranging from programming to operations. I also interviewed with diverse organizations ranging in size from established multinationals to three-person startups, and ranging in industries from insurance and technology to government development offices.

In the end, I wanted to pursue something analytical but still creative so I accepted the role of a Marketing Analyst at a giftcards company. The culture at the company was much more different than my previous Chinese experience; for one, I no longer had to punch in a timecard at work and people dressed professionally but did not dress identically.

The marketing role did not turn out the way I envisioned; there were many mundane analyses to be done in Excel (which I automated) and many ad-hoc projects, such as meeting with clients. To be honest, the few truly “creative” tasks I performed were minor, such as working with graphic designers to approve or make suggestions on their designs. Due to the fact that I automated many of my core responsibilities, I had many opportunities to work on tasks outside of my role, such as with the operations and sales teams. Perhaps one of my favourite aspects of the role was working on figuring out more open-ended questions such as what drove the sales of different cards in certain geographies; the task required both analytical and creative skills. For instance, one of the sales managers noticed a drop in sales of certain SKUs in Alberta and I used both quantitative and qualitative data to determine that the drop was most likely due to wildfires affecting certain regions.

While this first co-op experience didn’t align with my expectations, I did learn that I enjoyed working in fields tying in both the quantitative and the qualitative, and that podcasts are an excellent way to learn new things while at work during downtime.

# Co-op as an Investor

For my next internship, I was still unsure about what to do, but I knew that I probably won’t enjoy working a traditional business role in a larger organization. I looked at what my peers were applying for and found that the most competitive fields which combined both quantitative and qualitative skills were related to tech roles such as project management and data science as well as business roles such as management consulting and finance. I ended up restricting my applications only for those roles and ended up participating in the worst interview I’ve ever been in and later accepted the job from said interview.

The role was for a Research Analyst position from a Toronto-based public-market investment firm; I had to travel to downtown Toronto for my interview. I was allocated the 8AM interview slot which meant I had to stay overnight in Toronto as there was no way for me to travel from Waterloo to Toronto that early. I booked the cheapest Airbnb I could find and after a sleepless night with no air conditioning, I showed up to my interview fueled by caffeine and anxiety.

I was extremely ill-prepared for the interview because… I literally did not prepare for the interview. My interviewer (and future mentor) wasted no time in calling me foolish for not “bringing research to an interview for a research position”. Because I had no research to discuss, we interviewed about different aspects of the market, including (at the time) esoteric topics such as cryptocurrencies. This interview was extremely humbling because in business school I was taught to always have an answer but during the interview, whenever I tried to pretend like I had the answer, holes were quickly poked in my response and my answer would be unceremoniously shut down.

I found the bluntness extremely refreshing and throughout the interview it became apparent that I had become the type of person I despised the most: someone who talks superfluously but cannot back their talk with action or actual knowledge. I thanked my interviewer for his time and vowed to myself to be more humble and more informed. Somehow, even despite bombing the interview, I was offered the role after the number one candidate took another job.

This role was crucial for my professional development; I was assigned mentors who taught me everything from building financial models to interviewing company management. I was not only given instructions but also the opportunity to apply them; there was a great deal of trust in my abilities and I found myself interviewing CEOs of Fortune 500 companies within a couple of weeks into my internship.

This internship also taught me the importance of culture at a workplace; people were extremely open and helpful with constructive criticism. While this very radical openness can deter many people (the person who turned down the job did so citing the culture and the other intern who started with me quit within a couple of days), I found that if one can be humble and not take criticism personally, this culture created an environment perfect for learning and growth. Furthermore, due to the high level of openness, it created a very flat organizational structure where merit ranks above seniority, allowing the best ideas to prosper. Perhaps my favourite aspect of the job was participating in thesis critiques, where one’s investment idea faces the questions and concerns of everyone else on the team.

I found myself excelling in this organization, not only in my abilities in analyzing different companies and industries, but also in my abilities to be a more effective, value-add individual.

Influenced by the cerebral culture of the firm, I found myself taking up reading as a hobby once more and I also found myself becoming a better judge of character through both interviewing and sitting in interviews with different company managers and industry professionals. I was also made aware of many of my character flaws, such as overly apologizing and shyness when asking for help. I consider this co-op placement the beginning of my career and I still keep in touch with many of my mentors from this firm.

# Co-op as an Alternative Investor

Despite being offered a returning role, I decided to take advantage of the co-op system and try something new. I really enjoyed learning about markets and decided that I wanted to learn more about the other forms of investing outside of public market stock picking. I ended up accepting an offer to work at a Toronto-based hedge fund, but working on a new private equity strategy where the goal is to consolidate different RV resorts across Canada.

My mentor and I were establishing a new investment strategy as well as the infrastructure to manage everything from the ground up. Outside of working on traditional private equity tasks such as conducting due diligence and building financial models, I also worked intimately on the management of the acquisitions such as establishing business processes and working with on-the-grounds managers to operate the acquisitions. It was also an eye-opening experience to be a part of board discussions and business strategy meetings.

I was surprised at how hands-on investing can be, especially in private markets. As with my previous co-op, perhaps even more so, the main value I received is not only the skills associated with investing in private companies, but the advice on how to be a more effective person. My mentor gave me some very valuable life advice on the dangers of money, namely the dangers of only optimizing for money and the creeping effects of wearing golden handcuffs. He also gave me valuable advice on integrity and sticking to one’s principles. His advice still impacts how I make decisions about my career today.

During this co-op, through automating different business processes, I also realized the potential of technology as leverage; I had been using code to save time on many of my tasks and I realized that technology will eventually replace humans in every possible role. It became apparent that even “complex” tasks such as investing can eventually be replaced by algorithms and computers; it thus became crucial for me to understand these technologies and work in a role that is relatively more future-proof than just fundamental investing.

# Co-op as an ML Researcher

After reaching my epiphany on the potential of technology, namely the learning potential of AI, I dove deep into learning about different topics such as deep learning and reinforcement learning. I also reached out to people who worked as quants to get their perspective on the inevitability of singularity and how it affects their approach to work. Most people thought I either read too much sci-fi or I had a nut loose in my head; only one person shared my view on how AI will eventually replace humans in most of the jobs available today and he articulated very well on how he’s leveraging AI in his role as a quant. I ended up working with him as an ML researcher at an investment trust for my last co-op placement.

Due to COVID-19, the job was fully remote, but due to the research-focused nature of my role, I was relatively unaffected. I really enjoyed the open-ended nature of my job; I was free to explore many avenues ranging from purely technical topics such as how to mimic different complex functions with neural networks, to more financial topics such as how to apply techniques in computational biology to markets. Many of my research topics ended in dead ends, but the open-ended nature of my role meant that I achieved some promising results in esoteric topics such as using inverse reinforcement learning to analyze investment strategies.

I felt that my team was overly optimistic in the best way possible, in that they believed no idea is too crazy until it’s been tried. I also felt that the organization, while traditional in many ways (being a financial trust) had an burgeoning ethos of innovation; there was a great deal of interest in up-and-coming fields such as applying ML techniques to core strategies and considering new asset classes such as cryptocurrencies. It’s important to select an organization which tolerates a growth mindset, as one would get more exposure to and thus is more likely to be inspired by new and exciting ideas.

I am currently working as a full-time quant researcher in the same investment trust.

# Co-op Dos and Don'ts

I’ve synthesized my experience with internships and co-ops into three dos and don'ts.

# Dos

Do be prepared. Do your research on the different positions and companies; I always try to attend different employer sessions from Waterloo (you can attend even if you’re in double degree based out of Laurier). If you find the presentation and questions boring, you can still bum some free food.

Be sure to do your due diligence for all the jobs you get interviews for; ask people who have worked at the place in the past to get a sense of what their experience was both with their interview and with the role. Research the company and your interviewers; brush up on the skills and knowledge specifically demanded by the job posting (use resources such as Breaking Into Wall Street for finance jobs and Cracking the Coding Interview for technical jobs).

Do build a network, both with your peers and with industry professionals. It’s most likely that you will build a support network of your peers organically. Your peers can help you tangibly through résumé critiques or mock interviews, and oftentimes your peers can notify you of opportunities within their own network (be sure to return the favour).

Networking with industry professionals can be a bit trickier. When you first begin, it’s beneficial to increase the quantity of your network as much as possible. This means having shorter interactions with people, such as adding them on LinkedIn, sending them an email, or chatting for a short while at a networking event. After you have a base network established, you can afford to be more mindful of how you want to develop your professional network.

Quality over quantity is the name of the game; don’t just mindlessly network with any industry professional you come across. You should network with those who can add value to your career, and hopefully, whose career you can also add value to. I found it usually more fruitful to network with those whose career and work you are genuinely interested in and can learn from, as opposed to those who you want to network with just for a quick job referral or introduction. As your career develops, you should be mindful of what value you can add to the conversation, whether it be insights from previous jobs or from school, or trends you notice in your peer group. Having some value to leverage in conversations can help you level the playing field with industry professionals and open more conversation and connection opportunities.

It’s important to respect the other person’s time; avoid asking questions with answers which can be easily found through Google, and also avoid asking generic questions which can be answered with one yes/no. In general, just be thoughtful with your questions and ask questions whose answers you’re genuinely interested in.

Do be humble. The premise of co-op is to learn through work; that includes learning useful skills, such as coding, but also learning about oneself. The premise of learning requires that one be open to the idea that one does not have all the answers, and perhaps not even all the questions. Fortunately, co-op is one of the (few) opportunities where one is allowed and expected to do dumb stuff and ask dumb questions (cue the which intern did this meme).

Obviously, don’t slack off too much or make promises that you know for certain that you’re not going to deliver, but do understand that co-op placements present opportunities for learning and growth, and most opportunities require one to actively pursue in order to come into fruition. Don’t be afraid to ask for the new project that you’re not sure that you have the full skill set for (as long as you have support and a plan to learn the skill set) or ask for guidance and advice from your coworkers.

It’s important to note that humility does not mean complacency or subserviency; you should still act and behave as a full-time employee would, such as speaking up at meetings when you have something valuable to contribute. You should just understand that you have more leeway for performance than most of your full-time peers and you should capitalize on said leeway to further your growth and learning.

# Don'ts

Don’t optimize for pay. In the beginning of one’s career, especially during co-op, pay should not be the determining factor for selecting a job. Your co-op pay will likely be much less than the pay you’d make as a full-time employee because most co-ops don’t receive bonuses or equity and there is generally a discount on a co-op’s salary compared to that of a full-time employee for the same role (co-ops generally aren’t expected to perform at the same level as a full-time hire due to the temporary nature of co-op employment).

This is not to say that pay is an unimportant factor; you may need the pay to afford rent, tuition, and other living expenses. You should establish a baseline for how much money you need to live during co-op and how much money you want to save up; the number should be used as a baseline for how much pay you’d like to receive during co-op. You can also adjust said number up and down depending on a realistic assessment of how much value your skillset can fetch in the labour market (with the co-op discount).

Remember the long game; you’ll be working for a lot of your life, it’s more important to find a fulfilling career (or atleast to optimize for long-term pay) instead of opting for a quick and probably small payday.

The corollary to the above advice is to also not cheap out on the capital that you need to do your job or further your career. For instance, if you require a keyboard for work, don’t be afraid to spend money to buy a nice one or build your own; having nice tools improves productivity and also improves how you feel when working. This goes double for intangible capital; do not cheap out on learning opportunities, such as with courses or books. Investing in yourself, even investing in knowledge or skills you may not immediately need but are interested in, will yield one of the highest ROIs you can reap.

Don’t speak like an intern. Overly apologizing is something which I, who was brought up Canadian, struggled a lot with. A mentor at one of my co-op placements was kind enough to point out that I had a tendency to say “sorry” too often, even when it was not something I had to apologize for. This stemmed from my innate desire to be nice so as to be accepted by others. It’s important to recognize that the word “nice” stems from the latin term “nescire” or “nescius”, which roughly translates to “not know” or “ignorant”. Being overly nice is thus reserved for those who are basically simpletons. Don’t apologize for everything, especially if it’s not your fault. Even when it is your fault, I found that thanking the aggrieved party for their patience and offering a plan to rectify the shortcomings is more effective than a simple apology.

Do not be harmless, be polite but understand that you have value to contribute and don’t aim to merely fly below the radar. Don’t be afraid to speak up if you have value to add or if you disagree with someone on an important factor related to your work; if your employers believe that speaking up reflects poorly on you, then the organization probably lacks idea meritocracy, and is probably not worth your time working there after your graduate.

Another area which I struggled with is imposter syndrome. When I first started working in investing, I had a deathly fear of the phrase “I don’t know”. This is both due to the BS-ing that helped me get ahead in business school, as well as my fear of not wanting to seem incompetent in front of my coworkers who I respected and wanted to fit in with. The people at the firm was kind enough to call me out on my wishy-washy statements unbacked by data, and I realized that saying “I don’t know” and following up by learning what you didn’t know often worked much better than trying to bluff your way through a point, especially in an intellectually honest organization. Furthermore, acknowledging your shortcomings and fixing them helps to build trust and respect amongst your peers.

Generally thinking before speaking is good practice; the same mentor who pointed out my unfortunate habit of apologizing also pointed out that I tended to agree too fast with people and I tended to use the phrase “for sure” too often. He let me know that doing so shows that I didn’t really think through what I agreed with and it showed a lack of care. This was extremely helpful advice and I now actually pause to think before agreeing to anything and I also take time to think before speaking; this has helped my words be more impactful and helped me become a more effective person.

Oftentimes people are too nice to point out your shortcomings, especially your small shortcomings, so being explicit and proactive in asking for constructive criticisms not only helps you grow (given that the criticisms are valid) but also demonstrates value to your employers and helps you stand apart from other interns.

Don’t play it safe. I read about a framework the other day which I felt is applicable to the modern knowledge workplace; that of the kind vs wicked learning environment. The crux of the difference is that the kind learning environment offers fixed rules and complete and immediate feedback (think of games like chess or tennis) while in a wicked learning environment, the rules change and one does not usually receive complete or timely feedback. The modern workplace, with its fast-changing trends and technologies, is a clear wicked learning environment, meaning one needs adaptability to thrive. Adaptability means trying different roles and industries, not being constrained by your program and not specializing too early. Co-op placements are much more flexible than switching programs; it’s not a bad way to experience a new field or new industry. Furthermore, many of the sought after jobs require skills which are easily learnable outside of school, such as programming for tech jobs. With a little extra work, it’s not ridiculous to land co-op internships from fields other than one’s own academic field, thus establishing a foothold into a new career.

This is not to say that one has to completely vere off one’s beaten or envisioned path in order to become more adaptable. It’s perfectly fine to know what you want to do but to still experiment around the periphery, such as the specific role in the industry or even the specific company.

There is implicit value in the optionality of the co-op program, meaning the ability to choose has value. It therefore makes less sense why one would want to limit oneself to a company or position. While there are benefits for specialization, such as greater competency in one’s role and thus greater pay, specializing during co-op, such as working all co-op terms at the same organization, negates the value of optionality.

Typical Career Progression

One’s career progression typically follows a linear path where the more one works, the more one is likely to find something that is fulfilling and that one enjoys doing and is passionate about. Co-op is supposed to help one accelerate said process by allowing one to experiment greatly at the beginning of one’s career.

Career Progression with Co-op

If one gives up the optionality of co-op, the benefit of the program is then only akin to entering the workforce earlier. There is thus a steep, long term opportunity cost for not leveraging the co-op program’s optionality.

A final word of advice is to not doubt yourself and apply for jobs that you may not be (currently) qualified for. I found it is often in roles that I was grossly unqualified for that I learned and grew the most. This means avoiding jobs which don’t challenge or atleast engage you fully; there are no fixed guidelines for identifying such jobs, but a good rule of thumb is that the easier the job is to get, the easier the job will be, such as many co-op positions from the public or semi-public sector. Co-op placements are excellent places to fail; the downsides are limited (bad employer review) and the upsides are enormous (discovering a passion). It’s worth it to risk a rough unfulfilling 4-month work placement in order to achieve a fulfilling life-long career.